From Homeless at 14 to Debt-Free Homeowner AFTER Prison Time

Mindy:
Just a friendly heads up that today’s episode, while ultimately a success story, discusses drugs, alcohol, addiction, and recovery. Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, where we interview Jazmyn Gray and talk about her journey through a tough financial upbringing to becoming debt free and working on building wealth. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen and with me as always is my financial coach, co-host Scott Trench.

Scott:
Great to be here with my general manager of finance, Mindy Jensen.

Mindy:
Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you are starting.

Scott:
That’s right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own business or recover from severe financial setbacks, including restitution and personal debt, we’ll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards those dreams.

Mindy:
Scott, I am so excited to talk to Jazmyn today. She has a story that we really haven’t heard before and it is a story ultimately of triumph and when you set your mind to something, you truly can accomplish anything.

Scott:
Absolutely. I’ve had the privilege of knowing Jazmyn for the last couple of years and watching this journey that we’re going to hear today unfold, and it’s been remarkable to see her progress. This is someone who works as hard as anyone I’ve ever met, is energized and motivated to achieve her goals, passionate and ultimately finds a way to win and succeed. I think you’re going to hear a heartbreaking story to set things up, and I think you’re going to be amazed at what she’s been able to accomplish from that terrible starting position.

Mindy:
All of your excuses are now invalid for the reasons that you too cannot accomplish financial independence or become debt free or better yourself or grow wealth or, or, or. What is that? Whether you believe you can or you can’t, you’re right. Well, Jazmyn absolutely believed that she could and she did, and I love it.
All right. Before we bring in Jazmyn, we have a new segment on this show called Money Moment, where we share a money hack, tip or trick to help you on your financial journey. Today’s money moment is unplug your appliances. Did you know many electronic devices sip energy when they’re plugged in, even if they aren’t being used? The Department of Energy estimates you could save 10% every month just by unplugging your appliances after you use them. Of course, we’re not talking about your refrigerator, but all those little other things that are plugged in that don’t need to be, yanked that plug.
All right. Before we bring in Jazmyn, let’s take a quick break. And we are back. Jazmyn Gray is the recovery program manager at Cross Purpose, a nonprofit organization abolishing relational, economic and spiritual poverty through career and community development. Jazmyn is here to tell her money story today from growing up in a financially tough situation, to serving time in jail, to turning her life around through hard work and financial literacy. Jazmyn, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. I can’t wait to hear your story.

Jazmyn:
Thank you. I’m happy to be here. This is such a gift. I’m excited. I’m like, “Oh, sorry.”

Mindy:
No, no, don’t apologize. This is going to be a very interesting story. Let’s jump in with what was money like in your family growing up?

Jazmyn:
Money wasn’t really talked about, and if we wanted to earn money, the response from my grandparents was, “You do your chores to earn a roof over your head”, and that’s what money is for and it doesn’t go through the hands of children. Other than that, it wasn’t talked about when there were financial issues. We didn’t know about it. That’s how my relationship with money was growing up. Very young, I just remember being like, “I want what the other kids have.” Shoes, clothes, et cetera, and not being able to get them or my mom couldn’t afford them or what have you. So I started hustling in the form of selling marijuana or different substances and I got my own phone. I started buying clothes and shoes for myself to have what other kids had, and that’s where my hustle mentality was born, from not having much growing up and having to earn it through chores or earn a roof over my head through doing chores. So figuring out money was my other challenge, a challenge for me to do on my own for things I wanted.

Mindy:
What age are we talking about here?

Jazmyn:
Probably about 12 years old.

Scott:
So at 12 years old, the tough financial situation for your family had you kind of turning to selling marijuana and these other activities to bring in additional income on the side, is that right?

Jazmyn:
Correct.

Scott:
I understand that shortly after this period you experienced some homelessness. Would you mind walking through how that came to pass?

Jazmyn:
When I was 14 years old, my mom actually booted me out onto the streets, so I was living in trap houses and sleeping sometimes on park benches. From there I really had to learn how to provide for myself in the form of more hustling, criminal activity. As soon as I was old enough to work when I was 15, I also got a job at Lakeside. Then combined with all of the other things is. I hope that answers the question.

Mindy:
What is a trap house?

Jazmyn:
Oh, a trap house, it’s a place that’s either abandoned or a place where a lot of criminal activity happens or drugs are being sold or done on the premises of the property. A lot of people who are experiencing homelessness end up in these places and depend on each other to survive.

Scott:
Jazmyn, was there a usage of drugs and alcohol going along with the hustling that you described here in the criminal activities?

Jazmyn:
Yes. I started using substances, drinking alcohol. At the age of 10, I was smoking weed using substances, and then by the age of 12 I was addicted to crack cocaine, and from there my addiction progressed to ecstasy, methamphetamine. You name it, I was indulging in it.

Scott:
Your story is so remarkable. Coming from a background that’s as tough as what you’re describing here, kicked out onto the street, dealing with addiction, a criminal background that comes in here, and so thank you for sharing what must be a really hard story to share with a lot of folks around your background. I believe you also had some … in addition to some of these illegal activities, you also started a business and had some entrepreneurial ventures around this time. Would you mind describing a few of those?

Jazmyn:
When I was 18, almost 19, I started my own cleaning company called 303 Cleaning LLC and within the first four months I grossed about … I think it was 25K, after the second month and then after the four months, I was just like, “Whoa, I made 38K this month alone.” I just recognized how being an entrepreneur kind of like, “Oh, I can make money”, but I didn’t know how to budget to make sure that there was money going back into my business, which is something I’m glad that I learned super early on because out of that I had this hunger to learn how to use money as a tool and not necessarily for fun.

Scott:
How did you get this business? How’d you start it and how’d you get the first clients?

Jazmyn:
I was cleaning hotels and I just think back and I remember how easy it was to clean hotels, and then I was looking at job postings for Molly Maids and different maid cleaning companies. I worked at a residential commercial cleaning company for a few months, and I just noticed some gaps. I noticed things that weren’t being done, things that could have been done better, and I started doing some research on the pricing that my company offered, pricing of other companies, and I started just posting my own ads. Back then, I think it was Thumbtack. I started with Thumbtack and I started getting clients and I was still working and then once I took on more regular clients, I quit my job doing residential cleaning and from there it just kind of grew to where end of … I think it was the second month, I just took on so many things.
I’m bidding on all these jobs and being competitive with my pricing, I hired four part-time people so that I didn’t have to pay for benefits or all those things because I’m a kid, I don’t know how to do this, but I do know that I do need to obey the laws because by this time I had already done juvenile time behind bars, so I was like, “Oh, I’m going to do this so I don’t go to jail for any blue collar or white collar crime.” After that, the business was successful for about six months before I relapsed. But super exciting venture.

Mindy:
The business was successful before you relapsed. You were growing and growing. I mean, you made $38,000 in one month. That’s a whole year’s salary for some people. I know when I first started out, that was more than a whole year’s salary for me. What were you doing with the funds when they came in besides … I mean, I’m assuming that you were paying your workers and buying more supplies, but what were you doing with the extra?

Jazmyn:
With the money, interestingly enough, I paid my phone bill for a year in advance. I paid my rent six months in advance and I noticed I wasn’t paying to get the vacuums cleaned or paying for this. But then I started also using that money irresponsibly to do drugs. At the time I was experiencing a heartbreak and what I found too is that I’ve kind of run to work when I’m dealing with emotional stuff that I don’t want to deal with, so I was exiting a relationship that was heartbreaking and I relapsed in the process as well. That’s where my money went, was substances.

Mindy:
How long did that relapse last? Did it completely end the business or were you able to, I don’t know how to phrase this, kick it again?

Jazmyn:
No. I wound up going to the hospital with my two children. My son had RSV and I asked somebody else to run my business for me that was staying in my house, which you could call probably a trap house by this time, and this person actually robbed my home, took my business checks, went to my client’s houses, picked up checks, but did not do the job. I was in the hospital for eight days, so within eight days I lost at least 60% of my clientele.

Mindy:
Wow.

Scott:
How old were you at this time?

Jazmyn:
I was 19.

Scott:
At 19 you have two kids, you have a business that has just been robbed and wrecked and you’re in a relapse situation. Is that right?

Jazmyn:
My home was actually robbed as well. All of it was coming out of the hospital and just getting that kind of thrown on you was definitely challenging. But the way that I handled that was I fell deeper into my addiction versus try to pick up the pieces again, because following that I couldn’t make a car payment, I couldn’t pay my people anymore that were working for me. All this money I had in savings had been taken out by this person cashing checks all over Denver with the money that I had in the business, which wasn’t much in savings, it was probably about $15,000. Then when I filed a police report and they came back and they told me who it was, I just couldn’t press charges because of who this person was to me.
After that, I just went back to hustling, but this time more intensely on the side of dealing in crime, not so much drug dealing, more crime. Within a matter of months, I lost all my clientele by March of 2015 and by June I lost my kids, cars, house, everything, and that November I find myself incarcerated, on my way to prison.

Scott:
2015, you’re 19 and you’re incarcerated. For how long is the sentence?

Jazmyn:
2015. I started in November. It was just before my 20th birthday I went to jail and then I got out once or twice, but I would do seven months, eight months before sentencing. Then I spent a total of almost four years in prison. From 20 to 24 I was in prison.

Scott:
Can you tell us about the experience during that time? Did anything change while you were in prison? Can you walk us through what happened when you were released?

Jazmyn:
I think I should probably start to where the change started because it was prior to prison. I just remember being desperate. I was homeless, I was tired, I was angry at myself. I screamed at God. I think it’s the first time I remember having this conscious that there’s something in the universe that’s controlling everything and it’s not me. I was just like, “I need to change my life.” I fell to my knees and I just started crying and just begged. I had all these stipulations. “I don’t want to go to prison with new charges. I don’t want to go this, I don’t want to go that.” Before I know, bondsmen catch up with me and I am on my way to prison. I think being at that rock bottom, that desperate need for change and wanting to regain and restore all the things that I stole from myself, like relationships with my children, home, business, car, everything that I had worked so hard to earn, I lost just as quickly.
In prison, I just remember walking through the yard and all of these descriptions of what I thought I built my life on these morals and values, I just felt them being stripped off of me and the more that I focused on myself and took accountability for my actions and turned to God and just read books and educated myself and pursued … because in prison they have access to all these trainings and AutoCAD and all these different things that you can better your life with. I took advantage of that time and really just kind of used it to look inside myself and say, “I never want an opportunity like this again in my life to get my mind and get out there and just do it right this time.”

Scott:
You used the word hustling earlier to describe some of the activities you did as a teenager. I understand that the definition of hustling began to change at this point in time and that you hustled in prison as well to a certain extent. Would you mind sharing a little bit of that?

Jazmyn:
I think it was a year and a half into prison. I was tired of being broke. I didn’t have anybody that really sent me any money. I didn’t really have any contact with the outside world, no contact with my kids or anything like that either. I started to like, “Oh, I can make candies.” I’d melt down these lemonade candies or whatever kind of can into a sucker form. I’d peel off the cotton of the Q-tip and stick the Q-tip in the sucker and let it dry and harden. Then in the middle I would put a piece of taffy or a gummy, it was like a gummy snack, and then I would bake chili suckers, taffy suckers, and I would make taffy and I would sell those for stamps and that would be my currency in there to survive and get the things I needed and the things I wanted. Like shoes, sweatsuits, TV, coffee pot. I needed the coffee pot to do my business and then re-up, have somebody order the things I need in exchange for stamps.

Scott:
That’s awesome. I love it, the entrepreneurial spirit the whole way through here. What happens upon your release? What happens there and how does that go and how does the story continue?

Jazmyn:
When I was getting released from prison, I actually got kicked out because they were running out of space and I was like six months away from my MRD and I was in this class-

Scott:
What is MRD for those who don’t know?

Jazmyn:
Mandatory release date. I was in my class and it’s AutoCAD and that’s software and engineering through a computer, for those that may not know. I was really excited about it cause that was the way I was going to make big bucks when I got out. But they kicked me out of prison before I could finish the class. When I got out, I understood one thing and that’s that I needed to survive and the only way that I was going to do that was through opportunities and the only way to get opportunities is to seek them. I got connected with Cross Purpose, I got connected with case management through the WAGEES program at the empowerment program of Denver, and I started looking for jobs right away. I got out on a Friday, I started my first job on the very next Friday, and I was just all over Denver trying to get into programs and resources that help people who have been to prison.

Scott:
Awesome. I just want to explain what Cross Purpose is for those who don’t know. It’s a non-profit organization here in the Denver area that helps people like Jazmyn who are serious about improving their lives go through a career development program. They have really good track record of after several months, I think it’s a six-month program, of placing their alumni, which Jazmyn, you were an alumni, into jobs where you’re earning almost always greater than $20 per hour. It’s lifting folks in the community out of the poverty line and this is work that I’ve volunteered off and on with for seven or eight years and that you’ve taken part of on the side of being a leader, which is a participant in the program. How’d I do?

Jazmyn:
You did pretty good. That’s pretty accurate.

Scott:
You just got this job on Friday, a week after, and you’re attending Cross Purpose it sounds like right out the gate there. Sorry to interrupt your story.

Jazmyn:
No worries. Cross Purpose does a really good job of supporting people as they are not only maintain where they’re currently at, but really sustain and reach towards heights that they may not have otherwise reached, and that comes with relationship. I actually was afraid I wasn’t going to get into Cross Purpose because they told me that I wouldn’t qualify for a bookkeeping track because of my background. I was like, “Oh no, I think I can do it. I think I can do it,” and I called them every day for a month. Maybe it wasn’t every day. Maybe it was once a week and then I started becoming every other day towards the end of the deadline to get into the program. Then when I got accepted, no joke, I actually was like, “Yes.” I jumped up and clicked my hills and I think I was walking on Colfax and people must have looked at me really funny.
But I was just really excited to get into the program because I truly believe this program is going to help me change my life. After I got into the program, I started working two jobs. I’m going to school full-time, working two jobs, and Cross Purpose does food well, so if anybody’s hungry and they’re going to school or whatever, Cross Purpose feeds you. But I would eat from Cross Purpose, my restaurant job, which I was making $9 an hour, or I would just eat from the food bank to cut costs because I still had to pay rent. I was living with my brother, but he charged me 700 bucks a month for rent plus utilities and $9 an hour in Denver in 2019 is not a livable wage. I really just busted my butt from that time forward and then I got a full-time job doing accounts receivable at RAC Transport. It’s like billing, customer service, accounts receivable, all those things intertwined into this one position.
I just remembered feeling like $16 an hour is not enough. I need to hold onto this $9 an hour job and I need to hold onto this other weekend job that I have. I was constantly working multiple jobs to save money, to pay down debt, to get the things that I needed, so a car, and I would starve myself because food wasn’t as important as maybe paying my child support or paying down the debt balance of other things that I have, like restitution. That’s a little bit about that beginning journey and I continued working multiple jobs up until I started working at Cross Purpose in August of 2021.

Mindy:
Let’s talk about your debt and your restitution. What was your financial situation when you got out of prison and what was this debt and what was this restitution?

Jazmyn:
When I got out of prison, I think I had 28K in debt, and at least 16K of that was restitution, and the rest is just student loans, random bills that I hadn’t paid. I think I had a credit card or a internet bill that I hadn’t paid, childcare bill that I hadn’t paid from prior to prison. Some of those things fell off of my credit record, but I paid most of them because I just wanted it off my credit.

Mindy:
That’s understandable.

Scott:
So Jazmyn, you’re working three jobs, you’re hustling again in this new good context of the word hustling in your career, you’re at a career development program, you’re getting better opportunities, but you’re still working three jobs and you’re still not making enough or you feel confident about doing anything other than paying rent, you’re not even feeling confident with eating. How do you begin to progress towards a more sustainable financial position maybe in late 2019 or in that time period? How does the snowball begin rolling on the positive trajectory we know you ended up on?

Jazmyn:
I felt like there was maybe some education that I didn’t have, a gap in my understanding about finances. When Cross Purpose, Karen Gesing, shot out an invitation to Cross Finance to alumni network, I was like, “That’s for me, I need that. Whatever gap that is, I’ve got to figure out what that is.” When I started that program, Scott, you were there with a number of other coaches ready to just help us learn more about getting out of debt and investing and the list goes on and on, but that’s where I learned about the debt snowball. During that time in the Cross Finance program, not only did I work all those multiple jobs, I was selling burritos, I was delivering flowers, and I was selling items that I had in my house. My daughter participated in this with me where she would look online for free stuff and we’d go pick it up and then she’d do a garage sale and give me 10%, which was a joy for her.
Then not only that, but I was encouraged by Scott and Karen and Jeremy and Amanda, those are all the coaches and the people involved in my particular cohort, to really believe in myself and apply for higher paying positions. Advocate and how to … even saying, “Get a few offers in there so that you can say, “Well, this person’s paying me this much, but I like it here,” or framing things in a way to where I can fight for my salary. I had never thought of that until Scott actually brought it to my attention that I can fight for my salary. That was the first time I was like, “Oh crap, I can do that. I don’t have to just take anything because of my background”, because that’s how I really approached life in situations and jobs is, “Oh, I’m lucky to even have a job because I’m a felon,”
Now I believe, “Oh, they’re lucky to have me because my experience is diverse. It’s different and it’s a gift,” and just like they’re a gift to me, I’m a gift to them. We’re on the same team here. We’re at equal playing field.

Mindy:
I love that.

Scott:
You just bought into the program and every week came back with massive progress, did the homework. We taught Financial Peace University from Dave Ramsey in that program, and you just did it. You said, “I’m the gazelle approach”, and you crushed your debt and delivered flowers, made burritos. Every week, it was a new thing, a new tactic that you came up with, and it was just so awesome and rewarding to see all the progress you made over that first, I guess, 18 months that we were working together. Could you walk us through how that progressed in terms of translating to paying down debts? Do you have any milestones that you remember?

Jazmyn:
I remember we first saved up to a thousand dollars and then we would get a meal. Scott would buy … I think he bought Noodles and Company once or he’d just buy the whole class a meal. Then I think then we got to talk to each other, and I remember there was one woman in class, her name’s Lavisa. We would be in competition with who pays down how much more or what is going on each week, which was very healthy for us because it got us both out of debt. Having that healthy competition encouragement was really awesome. So that was a gift to me and a super big help to be able to, “Okay, now I can start knocking at this huge chunk of debt”, because I had restitution all over Denver in three different counties so that was something that was a challenge because I’m not just paying one bill at a time, I’m paying multiple all around.
But then after that happened, I could really start looking at student loans. With student loans, I kind of started paying it and then applying for different programs like student loan forgiveness programs and then when they forgave the rest of my student loans, I was like, “Oh crap, I’m out of debt,” and that was last year in October. August or October, one of those months, one of those fall months.

Scott:
It’s so awesome. I believe when you started Cross Purpose, you had 18,000 in restitution because I believe that it had been accruing interest so it had actually grown a little bit in the year or two leading up to that. I remember that conversation and I remember I’ve said that to a couple of people over the years that I’ve worked with in finance, and none of them have ever hit me up on that offer except you. I was so delighted to get that email and call that you had knocked it all out and there it was. So just congratulations on all that and congratulations on being debt free as of six months ago. It’s just so remarkable. Now that you’re debt free, I understand you’ve crossed even more milestones in your financial journey. Would you mind sharing a couple of the recent developments in the past six months that have come about?

Jazmyn:
I recently bought a house in Denver. I painted it all on my own. Well, with some help, but was able to design it, and I was able to get a grant for 10K from this nonprofit called Shared Power, which helped me to paint my house and do some of those internal cosmetic fixtures and purchase a couch and stuff, and then I also regained custody of my daughter.

Scott:
I love that. I saw your house when it was in progress, and I saw it at the housewarming party. Would you mind sharing as well what you’re doing with the house to help it produce some income and maybe how you financed it?

Jazmyn:
I am financing my house through a land trust company, which is State Bridge is actually the owner of my loan, and that’s like a 2.5% interest rate. That locks me in for 30 years at 2.5. Also, right now, I am putting together my third bedroom in the house, and I’m going to be putting a six-month non-renewable lease for a single Christian woman with no kids, no pets to come and rent out the space for that six months. That way, I have six months to generate some income, and then I have also six months to host and invite people for the holidays to come stay because that is really important to me. It’s like I get to still generate money and also do what I really love to do, which is care well and be in company of my family and people that I love during those holiday seasons. So that space is available in my home.

Mindy:
That’s awesome. Have you ever considered restarting your cleaning company?

Jazmyn:
I have. However, I don’t ever want to work that hard again. That may sound super lazy.

Mindy:
No.

Jazmyn:
But honestly, I put in a lot of work on that company and I just don’t think I want to go there again. You couldn’t pay the workers what you want to pay, especially this day and age, I don’t think. I’d have to do research on it, but I don’t see very many women who are cleaning companies making more than $22 an hour. I’d want to be able to create a company that I can actually pay people to work for me a livable wage, and more than just livable, something that they can really grow off of and provide for their family. I don’t want to employ people at the poverty line. I want to help them get here. Something that I’ve considered doing and then I’m working on a plan now is a consulting company. So business consulting, grant writing, things like that. That’s something that I’m kind of starting to do on the side and I’m learning a lot as I go, but that’s something that I’m passionate about and I think it will generate more income.

Mindy:
Grant writing can be huge. That’s a really cool thing to get into. So Jazmyn, how has this all improved your personal life?

Jazmyn:
I have to be honest. At first, going through all of this, it was really hard. I felt lonely. I struggled. My relationships were strained. All those years of hustle and bustle, and I say all those years, but it was only three and a half, four years, I guess, of all that hustle and bustle and it’s like I’m addicted to it because I keep … I’m like, “Oh, more ideas, more things. I can develop this out and do this very well.” But now it’s like, “Okay.” I have my daughter. I have other relationships in my life, and I’m like, “I have time to spend with the people I love and care about and doing things that I love and care about.” My quality of life is increasing as my financial situation gets better.
Over this journey too, my daughter, I had her every other week for a period of time, she was able to come with me to Monday night classes for Financial Peace or Cross Finance and see what I was doing actively, so she had an understanding of like, “Oh, my mom’s going to be doing this this week. Oh, this is what we’re going to be doing,” which now has made her … she’s a financially aware, smart child. She budgets her own allowance. It’s really cool to see. Over time, I took on just one position at Cross Purpose, with the idea and the heart that I want to serve these people really well, I don’t want to work off of autopilot, so I’m not going to take on extra jobs at this time. My situation with my daughter improved and got better. She lives with me now and not only does she live with me, I have custody of her.
Last year in March, I got in contact with my son again and a little bit about my son is he was adopted into a closed adoption while I was in prison because he wasn’t placed with a family member or with his father. He was placed with Colorado Child Protective Services. I have tried for years and years to appeal, and I’ve sent motion after motion and reached out. I’m only allowed to reach out once a year to social services to send cards or pictures or whatever, and I’d been doing that since being released from prison and so the family finally reached out to me last year. We have been working together to communicate, and I got to meet him in person for the first time in December.
We are working on creating relationship where our families … we’re not co-parenting, but we’re there for each other and my daughter and I are a part of his life, so those relationships are just flourishing and developing, and I couldn’t be more grateful with chasing stability and paying down debt and all of that. I don’t know if it’d be possible if I didn’t decide to get money situated along with all the other things that come with wellness, but it’s a holistic part of … the financial part is a holistic part of life.

Scott:
This was tough because this is a really hard situation. You didn’t have custody of your daughter, but as your position improved, you’re able to get that and that reunion was awesome to see that unfold. I mean, I didn’t see the actual reunion, but to see the relationship with you and your daughter growing was wonderful. Then I just can only imagine how hard it is and all the different emotions and thoughts going into your son was adopted by another family, and it sounds like there was some skepticism or desire to slowly build the relationship at first, and just your commitment to improving your life in every direction, building a great set of relationships, your financial position, career stability, all that kind of stuff, I think to me has to have been a contributing factor to that opening back up the window to your son’s life to a large degree.
That was super powerful to see all these things deservedly starting to go for Jazmyn over the last three or four years, so that’s awesome. We’ve paid off all our debt except for the now new home mortgage. We’ve got, I presume, a really good credit score. We’re earning a great income. Now you’re working for Cross Purpose full-time and I’d love to hear a little bit about that position and what you’re doing there and the relationships are coming back into your life. The most important relationships are coming back into your life and starting to be a bigger and bigger part of your day-to-day. Is that right, for the most part?

Jazmyn:
That’s right. A little bit more about my position at Cross Purpose. I started in the alumni department as the alumni career coach, moved into the Alumni Advancement Manager, and then John Livingston and I … John Livingston is a staff member here at Cross Purposes. He’s also a cross-purposes alumni, worked together to develop this recovery program called Live Different Recovery at Cross Purpose. It was a part-time side gig for some extra money, and our hearts were in it, so it made it just that much easier or better or more passionate about it. We started the development processes March of last year. In August of 2022, we launched the program, and from August to December, more than 400 people in Denver had attended our program. Cross Purpose saw that it was a need in the community and that there would need to be somebody who ran it.
So a position was created out of the development of this program, and it just becoming more than this coffee, sit around, talk. It became a program, was designed to become a program. So now I’m the recovery programs manager at Cross Purpose, which is really fun. It’s awesome. I enjoy all the elements that I get to do from curriculum development to putting teams together to fundraising, just coming in on a Friday night when we do our meetings. They’re from six to eight with a meal and childcare, just seeing all the people smile and be together and hear about celebrations and challenges and just experience a change that happens and be able to be a part of it. I went from being super stressed out in my previous position to I have so many responsibilities to now it’s like I have these responsibilities, but it’s not as much. It’s a gift.

Mindy:
Jazmyn, what’s next for you?

Jazmyn:
I’m already kind of working on the development of what a consulting company could look like while I’m kind of getting my name out there at the same time. That’s something that’s next. I don’t know when it’s going to pop. I think usually when things are in development like this a little bit, sometimes they just happen and they happen pretty fast. I’ve never had something like this take that long, but I guess we’ll see what happens there. But that’s something that I’m excited about. Then I really want to get more involved in real estate and investment and things like that as I continue my journey onward. I think real estate is a key to generational wealth and impacting our communities in a positive way. I mean, you have the power to do it in a negative or a positive way, so I would want to do it in a positive way and serve families and people, individuals who deserve a second chance.

Scott:
I’m excited, Jazmyn. The compound interest has been working against you for almost all the time that I’ve known you, and now it’s about to start working for you, and I’m very excited to see what that brings over the next three, five years. That’s awesome. Jazmyn, we’re going to give you any Bigger Pockets book that you would like to help you get started in real estate investing or all of them if you’d like them.

Jazmyn:
Oh, thank you. Wow. What an honor, what a gift. More gifts. Thank you.

Mindy:
Jazmyn, you need a Bigger Pockets Pro membership, so when you are ready to get started on your real estate education journey, hit me up because I have Bigger Pocket superpowers and I will give you a pro membership so you can unlock all the parts of the website and truly start learning.

Jazmyn:
Gift received, challenge accepted. I don’t know. There’s so much [inaudible 00:41:21] in that. Thank you.

Mindy:
Yes. In exchange for some advice. What advice would you give someone who may not know where to start on their financial journey?

Jazmyn:
I would say first tap into your resources. There are people around you that are hungry to teach you something. You can look online for some classes if you need the structure. If not, get your budget in order and figure out your debts, listing them from smallest to largest, and knock those babies out. Then figure out too, what’s your BHAG, what’s your big, hairy, audacious goal that you want to do. For me, it was like how am I going to be a homeowner and being a homeowner was actually in my five-year plan after getting out of prison, and I accomplished it in less than four. Just shy of less than four, but it’s through those small things of budgeting, having your budget in line and paying out that debt and being very mindful about what you do with your credit.

Scott:
I love it. One of the things you said earlier that stuck out to me was… And I’m going to misquote you here, but you said something about how you needed opportunities and then to take those opportunities. How did you phrase that when you’re coming out of prison and thinking about what you needed to do in order to be successful? Do you remember that?

Jazmyn:
When I got out of prison or anywhere in life, I like to call myself an opportunist because I’m always seeking something. I always have a goal. I always have goals set for myself, whether personally, professionally, financially, whatever they are and I’m always seeking an opportunity to achieve the goal. How you seek opportunities is you get out there, you connect with people, you network, you trust people, you’re open to learning because people love to teach other people things. I love to learn and so when you approach somebody with a learning posture, people are definitely willing to share what they know. That’s what I’ve learned before prison or if I never would’ve come to Cross Purpose, probably, I’ve never thought that people had my best interests at heart, but over time I’ve learned like, “Hey, people just want to see other people succeed and we can do that together.” Relationships and networking are really key to tapping into opportunities.

Mindy:
I love that.

Scott:
Well, Jazmyn, thank you so much for coming on and having the courage to share the toughest beginning I think that we might have heard on the Bigger Pockets Money podcast in all of the 400 episodes that we’ve had, and the remarkable journey to get to where you are today as a homeowner who’s debt free and beginning to get started on an investing journey. It’s been a privilege to know you the last couple of years, and I’m very excited to see what comes next. I’ll be interested to hear what that five year plan evolves to the next couple of months now that you’re in such a wonderful position and on such a great trajectory.

Jazmyn:
Well, thanks and thank you for being willing to teach and have me here today. This is a … wow. When I first got the invitation, I was like, “What? Really? Me?” But it’s such a gift, so thank you.

Scott:
Where can people find out more about you and Cross Purpose?

Jazmyn:
Go to www.crosspurpose.org. That’s where people can find out more about Cross Purpose and then about me, I have a LinkedIn profile, or you can find my bio on the Cross Purpose website or come visit Live Different Recovery on a Friday night and you can meet me in person.

Scott:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, really great to catch up, and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and really appreciate you sharing your story.

Jazmyn:
Awesome. Well, thank you. Thanks, Scott. Thanks Mindy.

Mindy:
Thank you, Jazmyn, for your time today, and we’ll talk to you soon.
Holy cat, Scott, that was an incredible story by Jazmyn. I can’t imagine what it was like to watch her go through all of that and just see her success over and over again. What a privilege.

Scott:
It’s been awesome to witness this from Jazmyn, and I’m just proud to know her. It’s awesome that she’s been able to accomplish all this and like I said, I can’t wait to see what she achieves with the next five, 10 years. The world’s her oyster and she’s really set herself up for success here.

Mindy:
Her mindset is absolutely her biggest asset, and she believes that she can, so she will. I think that’s some smarmy quote somewhere, but it’s so true in this case. She absolutely believes that she can do it, and she just continues to find a way and her consulting company, every faith that is going to be a smashing success just like she has been.

Scott:
One of the things that I think is … and obviously my passion, your passion is helping people get better with their money, and particularly with the spin of using that position of being better with your money to move towards financial freedom. I think that that’s so important for folks like Jazmyn and folks that are in positions similar to where Jazmyn was coming out of prison, because when you’re coming out of the prison system, I can imagine, I could think that someone in that situation feels like, “Well, my life’s over. The best I can do is get a very low income job and live at or maybe just above the poverty line, and maybe ever if things were really well, and I bust it for 40 years, aspire to the middle class outcome if I’m truly lucky.”
That may not be attractive to some folks in that situation and I think that it’s why it’s so important to highlight stories like Jazmyn’s about how you can get out of debt, how you can become a homeowner, and how you can ultimately begin investing and become financially free because that is such an attractive path forward. Obviously, life’s not all about money, but we’re a financial podcast and I wonder if that outlook on personal finance, this entrepreneurial mindset, this investing mindset which is accessible to folks like Jazmyn, as we just saw, maybe that’s something that could inspire folks to direct the energy as Jazmyn’s directed towards these kind of healthy pursuits and outcomes. I’ll just leave that as a thought starter and would love thoughts or opinions on that, perhaps in the Facebook group.

Mindy:
That would be awesome. All right, Scott, should we get out of here?

Scott:
Let’s do it.

Mindy:
All right. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen saying toodles noodles. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Caitlin Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.